back to north america because china is coming back. i disagree that the unions are on the defensive when it comes to government. they own government. >> one place it is growing is public sector. >> ebe mac touched on the reason why. government doesn't compete. they raise taxes. private sector where business is up to compete on the price of the product. unions make companies less competitive. >> what does it say about unions. they used to represent . people were proud to put the union label on the product. is that still true, steve? >> no, all you have to do is lookk at detroit and the legacy and companies that went in to right to work states and they paid competitive wages and did well in a normal economy and the unions outlived their usefulness. >> rick, do unions have a pr problem and have to say go back to basics and say we make better products. >> they do have pr problems but a healthy chunk of that is the effort to discredit them and it took root. >> hold on, emac. it is not hard to discredit richard trunka who? in my eyes was like a thug. look what he did in the united mines.